Thursday, September 25, 2008

Vote no on Bush Bail-out

This is so wrong.

Former GOP Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich says the Bush Bail-out will drive the engine of corruption as Wall Street insiders play the system.

This is so wrong.

Warrant Buffett pumps in $5 billion and gets preferred stock. The Bush Bailout would turn taxpayers into bottom feeders buying trash stock at low tide.

This is so wrong.

Many observers compare the Bush Bail-out with the Resolution Trust Corporation but it was no great success. RTC lost $125 billion in six years.

This is so wrong.

To function, RTC had to hire 10,000 people to work the debt load. The Bush Bail-out is twice that big. How long does it take to find and hire 20,000 people? The weekend timeline is artificial, political and cynical.

This is so wrong.

But it feels so familiar. Like the tactics used in the run-up to the Iraq war.

This is so wrong.

In the end, Wall Street will continue to run the show.

This is so wrong.

This morning, I hear the children playing in the school yard. Poor darlings. They have no idea of the debt they are going to have to pay. They have no idea that they are going to have to explain it to their children, too.


sph said...

And you are so right!

The South Plainsman said...

There are some thing that can bring us all together. This is one. You are quite right about this, old pal.

My question is: what is the alternative? That has not been answered. I am glad to see all of our leaders beginning to get involved, even if Obama had to be dragged in kicking and screaming.

This thing is going to require a bi-partisan agreement, and you can't get one if some are not in the arena.

I am convinced that we need to act. But we also need to do it right. If I knew the answer, I would surely make the suggestion.

Jeff Hebert said...

I love that you insult Obama with "even if Obama had to be dragged in kicking and screaming" and in the very next sentence add "This thing is going to require a bi-partisan agreement".

That pretty much sums up what a Republican means by "bipartisan" -- "we're doing this my way, you get nothing, and here are a few gratuitous untrue insults just for good measure. Fuck you very much."

Let's ignore the fact that Obama has introduced five separate pieces of Banking legislation this year to McCain's zero, even though McCain is chair of the Commerce Committee and in theory this is his bailiwick.

Let's ignore the fact that Obama is the one who suggested five separate things the bailout would have to guarantee to be acceptable -- things like making sure we get equity for our money, that we're going to stop screwing the little guy while helping out the biggest corporations in the world, making sure there's some accountability instead of a blank check -- while McCain did nothing but suddenly, after missing more votes than any other Senator, decide that this was so important he had to fly back to Washington even though he doesn't sit on any of the committees deciding this and his presence was, at best, a distraction. After promising to "suspend his campaign" which, naturally enough, was a lie -- ads are still running, meetings are still being taken, fund-raisers held, campaign stops go on. More lies from the most dishonest campaign I have ever seen.

Let's ignore the fact that John McCain is so clueless that at 9am he said "The fundamentals of our economy are strong" and then at 11am -- on the same day! -- turned around and said this was a huge crisis that was going to crater our economy. That must have been a hellacious two hours.

Let's ignore all of that, and instead turn reality on its head and say that Obama had to be "dragged in kicking and screaming" as if somehow he's the clueless one. Unbelievable.

Here's how Republicans work. They fuck up something, make it as impossible as they can to tell whether or not it's actually fucked up, and then when people finally notice that yes, it is indeed fucked up they a) say "this is no time for pointing fingers but it's your fault for fucking it up", b) say "even though we fucked it up we're the only ones who can fix it", and then c) scare the living shit out of you with the unbelievable level of fucked-upedness so you'll be too scared to say no when they introduce some bat-shit crazy "plan" that they'll then turn around and use to blame the even bigger post-fuck-up fuck-up on you.

Unfortunately our Congressional leadership and, apparently, our Presidential nominee, have not yet figured out that these back-stabbing incompetents are perfectly willing to lie through their teeth while planning to double-cross both you and America in the process.

The South Plainsman said...

Jeff, my statement was to the effect that Obama had shown no interest in participating in a bi-partisan agreement. He never has. It wasn't going to be bi-partisan with him not there. And he clearly was not going to be there until Bush and McCain put him in a position where he had to come or really look bad.

The underlying economy is good. Without he capital market problems for the last year, no one would have been anticipating a recession. So what McCain said about it was true. This crisis can certainly screw it up, and is, in fact, doing so. But the fundamentals other than the capital markets have been good.

You want to blame the Republicans for all of this in a highly partisan way, but it all started in Clinton's term, and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd prevented any action from being taken to solve the problem in 2003 and in 2006. Now many Republicans are certainly part of the problem as well. I think we need to string them all up...on both sides of the isle.

Now it is OK if you like Obama. I have a lot of friends that do. If you think that introducing those bills is great, so be it. I will bet that his staff did it, because like McCain, Obama has rarely been there. But what has he ever passed? Nada, zip, nothing of any consequence.

I am not going to address the lying bit. Both sides do it, its terrible, and they should all be held accountable. That is the only bi-partisan thing that they all do.

AS for all the %&^%&ing up, all I can say is that you need to get ahold of yourself. Everyone is angry, but losing one's cool will not help free discussion.

Now the Daily Kos would probably welcome that kind of discourse.

Here is their site:

Anonymous said...

The question I hear or read mostly that resounds around the country is "Why is it time again to trust this administration?" Every facet of this government has been poorly or meekly run during these nearly eight years: Fema is the most visible with "Heckuva Job Brownie" which of course was a disastrous job.
We have a war hero running for president who was tortured repeatedly while a military captive of the Vietnamese. The CIA, FBI, Defense and others have systematically tortured those we have captured in this terrorist operation. Laws were ignored, changed, refuted at the highest level of government for approximately the same type of mental and physical torture endured by McCain. And Bush says we don't torture. Read the Dark Side by Jane Mayer if you trust this guy who avoided combat in 'Nam. Or Cheney who had seven deferments to go to college.
There was a time to have transparency and oversight, tighter regulations of our financial entities when Enron collapsed but this administration refused to take that step.
We have been lied to about spying on our own citizens. We have been lied to about entering an unnecessary war that has cost nearly 5,000 Americn lives. We had a promise of finishing bin Laden and helping Afghanistan. Those are unfullfilled. Afghanistan is as Dexter Filkins, the oustanding fjoreign correspondent, describes in his book :"The Forever War," more deadly than ever. Those who opposed the Bush-war had their patriotism questioned. When Obama said in a time of great economic crisis it is partiotic to pay taxes. Oh my what a firestorm; patriotism for paying taxes. After we have had a war for five years that was not supported by taxes but by the future of our children.
So now we are warned that what we must have is "Fear"...again...everything based on fear and the consequences.
Greed on Wall Street? How about in this government? The list is too long of those indicted, in prison or in court now.
So there is a problem, a huge one.There has been one, or more, for these eight years. But before we jump into bed with these sorry administators let's have explicit rules, regulations, oversight, transparency and the administrator would be susceptible to legal action if it fails.
Odd that all this has erupted just before the election. But let's not be cynical.

Anonymous said...

Pow..right on target. The one HUGE point that is never made anywhere is a continuing vendetta I have about all the so-called "liberal" media, as well as the right wingers at Fox. How come NO one steps up and challenges these Bush administration ideas with questions of any meaning, that illuminate, that enlighten, that give the citizenry the information it needs to really make concrete decisions concerning EVERYTHING in government?

No one has made these folks answerable for anything they have done. They have had a free ride. Eight years long.

Can it be that U.S. citizens have grown so lazy that Ruppert Murdoch KNEW when he bought the tabloids and then started Fox that he could in fact, "change the face of the media in the U.S. forever."?


sph said...

SPlainsman, those of us who never believed there were weapons of mass destruction are as angry as Jeff - some of us even more so. He said everything I wanted to say just the way I want to say it.

My protests weren't loud enough or long enough over the wars, over Guantanamo, over Hurricane Katrina, Gonzalez, veterans benefits and treatment, the national debt, Dick Cheney, over waterboarding, and the raping of the Environmental Protection Act and the Constitution, alternative fuel sources AND now over this insult to my intelligence and my pocketbook and that's the short list, and NOW I 'm supposed to play nice or be accused of being partisan -

Bullshit - I am one mad voter who has had enough.

Sic'em Jeff.

Jeff Hebert said...


I say if "Fuck you" is good enough for Dick Cheney on the floor of the Senate regarding a colleague, and if John McCain can call Hillary Clinton a c**t, I can drop the f bomb on a blog without Western civilization collapsing.

Jeff, my statement was to the effect that Obama had shown no interest in participating in a bi-partisan agreement.

And this is, as I stated, false. It was Obama who approached McCain about the joint statment, and Obama who has said repeatedly over the last two weeks that he was talking with Paulson & Co. He has said over and over that this should not be a partisan issue.

This is where you and Goose drive me nuts, you say something as if it's from the mouth of God when it's just flat-out factually incorrect.

And for the record, I happen to think DailyKos is a great site. No one ever died from using a four-letter word; getting hung up on that while we are asked to eat a $700 billion four-day "plan" and we're mired in at least two wars is a bit like fussing with the drapes while Rome burns.

I'll quote George's son Steve on why at the age of six he used the f word without knowing what it meant: "It just feels good in your mouth."

Anonymous said...

For the first time in a long time, I called both of my U.S. Senators'
offices and U.S. Rep. McCaul to register a "no" vote on the bailout.....

Just outrageous. Liked your "This is so wrong" column. I actually prefer a recession and the difficult consequences over the bailout. I still can't believe we've had no money for health care, environmental protection,
infrastructure improvements and now the taxpayers are going to be asked to bail out these sons of bitches.....Outrageous, wrong, sinful.


The South Plainsman said...

I don't see how ANY of the politicians in Washington can be trusted. They have all been at the trough so long that virtually all of them are in one pocket or another.

I don't trust the Bush Administration or the Congress (either party) or the Federal Reserve to do what is good for those of us on Main Street.

Wish I had a clue what to do. I am not convinced that anybody does.

I am ready for some real straight talk from our candidates. In plain English and no hedging. Doubt we will get it.

The South Plainsman said...

Jeff, that joint statement was just fluff and did not commit either of them to a specic plan. The specifics of the plan are being negotiated as I write.

If Obama were not there, it would be impossible to negotiate the details because what he beieves about them are very important. He was going to do the fluff, and stay out of the arena.

I have been a lawyer for 44 years, and I have never had a tough negotiation work unless all the interested parties were there to sign off on the deal. The real world does not work any other way. Now if Obama were going to let someone else do it for him, we should have the opportunity to vote for that person.

What is done about this, one way or another, is going to have a very serious long term effect on our country, and we deserve to have those that will lead us to be there in the arena, and not off practicing his lines.

I don't guess I care about four letter words. Use'em myself in private conversation. I think it is funny that I rarely see them used except on left of center blogs. My Mother always told me that it just showed an inability to express oneself well. But she was a preacher's daughter, so what did she know? LOL

Waiting for George's next subject, if he dares. LOL

Jeff Hebert said...

If Obama were not there, it would be impossible to negotiate the details because what he beieves about them are very important. He was going to do the fluff, and stay out of the arena.

Again, untrue. As he said, he'd be happy to come if needed, and not to inject politics in it until then. Bush said yes, now that the deal's 98% done, it would be a good time. So he came. The rest was done with this nifty invention McCain might not be aware of called "the telephone".

By your reasoning, McCain was also dragged kicking and screaming since he didn't show up until about four hours before Obama. If you're seriously arguing that nothing substantial got done until today, then you're living in a dream world. They've been working on this for a week or so and neither guy's been there.

Anonymous said...

I guess I need to enter the fray since my name was used by Jeff.
Question-- When are the liberals ging to start thinking for themselves instead of what they are being fed by the party and the media.
Jeffs four letter diatribe explains why he thinks like he does.
He rails about the non-fact that the Republicans always want it their way. Can we say filibuster,oil drilling,legislation that is not allowed on the floor because the emo leaders know they would lose bigtime.
As far as the weapons of mass destruction,have we forgotten that the previous President and several liberal Senators stated that Iraq had them,which were used in part against the Serbs,and the fact that several burial sites in the desert have been unearthed by the coalition forces.You probably forgot that part because it wasn't widely reported.Would we call that suppression of the news??
About so-called tortue.If you were told that the person you were talking to,knew when your son was going to be murdered,by whom,and when,would you just let it go and walk off wondering how you could find out.I personally would ram a .357 up the guys nose and keep clicking it watching him sweat blood, wondering if he was going to hear the next click or not.If thaat didn't get him to talk, then I'd take a pair of sheet metal shears and start removing fingers,one knucle at a time, If that didn't get him to talk,I'd get serious then.
The financial mess is the fault of both parties and goes back several years,Yes,even beyond 2000.
Let's agree to disagree and vote for the person we think is right for the immense job ahead of them.

Jeff Hebert said...

About so-called tortue

One question for you, Goose:

Was what was done to John McCain while a prisoner of war torture?

Jeff Hebert said...

I'll give credit where it's due, as of this writing (Thursday evening), it appears that House Republicans have stymied the bailout deal.

Good for them.

I don't know what their reasons are, they might be arguing for some stuff I'd find reprehensible, but in my book the longer this takes the better; we need time to make sure we're doing this the best way, assuming it's even necessary at all.

You know, this makes me think about how the Constitution was written in an age when it would take months to get Congress even in the same physical location. Everything was a lot slower and took longer. In this day and age, when things happen at the speed of light, I think it's too easy to go too fast, and careful deliberation and thought get tossed by the wayside.

"Rush to judgment" gets used a lot, but I think it's apt in this case. I am glad the House Republicans, at least, are willing to go out on a limb and say "Whoa, Nellie!" I wish I could say the same for the Democrats.

Anonymous said...

Yes Jeff, McCain was tortured to try to get him to give information he didn't have. That is the big difference.Don't equate what previous derilect countries did with Guantanimo,or other prisons where the enemy is being kept by our government.

Jeff Hebert said...

The vast majority of people imprisoned in Guantanamo were completely innocent, as evidenced by the fact that we let most of them go after a couple of years. Many of them were tortured -- your word -- in exactly the same way as John McCain was. They, like McCain, knew nothing because they were completely unaffiliated with al Qaeda.

What was done to John McCain was a horrible, indefensible crime, and thanks to the most lawless contemptible Administration in the history of our nation, it is now the policy of the United States, in exactly the same moral space and exactly the same manner. It is a blight on our national conscience we will be hard pressed to erase. That you can endorse the methods used to torture the man you support for President requires a level of cognitive dissonance and moral turpitude that frankly astonishes me.

Dan said...

There's no incentive to have children anymore. More people are becoming atheist, more people are buying an expensive education that they know they will never be able to pay off in their lifetimes, and more people are not getting married because of the spike in divorce rates = someone gets screwed either way. What's the incentive anymore? Live life up like every day is your last, because this country is goin to hell in a handbasket.

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